1 00:00:01,580 --> 00:00:10,800 Right now, it's time on WFMT for Schickely Mix with Peter Schickely. You ready, Peter? 2 00:00:13,020 --> 00:00:17,820 You seem to be a bit conflicted, Peter. What do you say? 3 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:25,460 Part of me says yes, and the other part says no. But it's time, so here's the theme. 4 00:01:00,820 --> 00:01:09,460 Schickely Mix We are more than grateful for the fact that our bills are paid by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and by the National Endowment for the Arts, 5 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:20,220 with additional support from the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences, and from this visionary radio station, if that's not a contradiction in terms, 6 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:33,320 where I am provided with a parking space, a studio, and enough rope to hang myself, and whence the results of my contrary activities are distributed to the four corners by PRI, Publicity, and the Publicity of the World. Public Radio International. 7 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:46,340 Anything you can do, I can do better. I can do anything better than you. No, you can't. Yes, I can. No, you can't. Yes, I can. No, you can't. Yes, I can. Yes, I can. 8 00:01:47,380 --> 00:01:52,280 Anything you can be, I can be greater. Sooner or later, I'm greater than you. 9 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:53,020 No, you're not. 10 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:55,860 Yes, I am. No, you're not. Yes, I am. No, you're not. 11 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,080 Yes, I am. Have you ever known a couple like that? 12 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:07,300 You know, who obviously love each other, but fight all the time? Two of my strongest memories of being a young teenager involve my parents, 13 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:19,160 who certainly didn't fight all the time, and it wasn't a matter of anything you can do, I can do better, but they would get into these big shouting arguments about politics or whatever when other people were around. 14 00:02:19,540 --> 00:02:31,820 I mean, like when company was over, and I really found it embarrassing. On the other hand, I also remember family hugs, when all four of us would get in a football huddle with our dog Ricky hopping around, 15 00:02:31,820 --> 00:02:44,220 and wagging his tail in the middle. You know, come to think of it, for a bunch of basically northern types, it was a rather southern blend of arguments and hugs. William Blake would have approved. 16 00:02:45,020 --> 00:02:57,820 Tiger, tiger, burning bright in the forests of the night. Blake thought you should let the tiger out of your tank. You shouldn't allow negative thoughts to fester until they become sludge in your system. Don't try to fit in. 17 00:02:58,020 --> 00:03:10,400 Vive la difference. In fact, he went so far, as to say that opposition is true friendship, and that's the name of today's show. We're going to be listening to some antiphonal music, 18 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:19,260 using the word antiphonal with various degrees of literalness. Antiphonal, of course, comes from the Greek anti and phon. 19 00:03:20,300 --> 00:03:33,100 Antiphon was a cantankerous old Spartan lady who enjoyed pitting one person against the other, preferably until they were yelling at each other, because she felt that things were more lively, when there was a bit of friction in the air. 20 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:40,860 Because of her, anti has come to mean against, and phon to mean sound. Although in music, 21 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:53,100 the against part of the term usually means opposing in a spatial and or temporal sense, rather than in the sense of having contrary objectives. On the contrary, 22 00:03:53,400 --> 00:04:01,340 antiphonal music is often echo music, in which two or more groups are placed at a significant remove from one another, but are about to be destroyed. 23 00:04:01,340 --> 00:04:12,920 as friendly as you can get in terms of what they play or sing, since one group usually repeats what another has just presented, either literally or more or less. Let's start out with some of that 24 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:24,780 music. These aren't echo pieces in the sense of works that reproduce the sound of natural echo. We deal with those on another edition of the show. These are pieces that feature noticeably 25 00:04:24,780 --> 00:04:30,760 separated groups, more noticeable if you're listening in stereo than in mono to be sure, 26 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:37,860 and the music is made up mostly of statements and imitative responses. The size of the groups 27 00:04:37,860 --> 00:04:49,660 within each piece is pretty much the same, so I call this the separate but equal antiphonal suite. It has three movements and lasts about seven minutes. I'll see you then. 28 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:09,840 And it's easy, but look at me, how it's been built. 29 00:05:10,660 --> 00:05:19,180 How it's been built on the family yard. 30 00:05:20,220 --> 00:05:29,200 To the father, mother and son, to your Russian mother. 31 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:39,860 Two mines, two mines, two mines, young people 32 00:05:40,140 --> 00:05:49,060 They will play, they will play, Russian is mine, mine 33 00:05:49,060 --> 00:05:59,320 Russian is mine, mine, Russian will not let me down 34 00:10:29,590 --> 00:11:55,740 The separate but equal 35 00:11:55,740 --> 00:12:03,000 The separate but equal The separate but equal The separate but equal The separate but equal 36 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:15,700 The separate but equal The separate but equal The separate but equal The separate but equal The separate but equal The separate but equal The separate but equal The separate but equal 37 00:12:15,700 --> 00:12:26,720 The separate but equal The separate but equal The separate but equal The separate but equal 38 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:39,520 head-to-tail there. Then we had Giovanni Gabrielli, the Canzone Septimitone No. 2 from the Sacred Symphonies, and that was the Empire Brass and Friends. This is 39 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:48,980 music that was originally written for the San Marco Cathedral in Venice, a huge cathedral with four different organs in it, a lot of antiphonal music, and of 40 00:12:48,980 --> 00:12:55,640 course a tremendous reverberation sound. And as a matter of fact, the last piece 41 00:12:55,640 --> 00:13:02,900 in the suite, that beautiful, beautiful Gloria, is from Monteverdi's Vespro della 42 00:13:02,900 --> 00:13:09,640 Beata Vergine. That was the Gloria Patria et Filio, and that was Nigel Robeson, Mark 43 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:18,100 Tucker, the London Oratory Junior Choir was conducted by John Elliot Gardner. And 44 00:13:18,100 --> 00:13:29,500 that is one of the most beautiful uses of echo and spatial separation that I've ever heard. You know, as a matter of fact, I was thinking about this during the Gabrielli. Even with 45 00:13:29,500 --> 00:13:41,340 stereo, if you record in a very live situation, the sound bounces around so much that I don't get that much feeling of left and right anyway. Maybe with 46 00:13:41,340 --> 00:13:51,560 earphones you would. I think that if you really want to get that sense of spatial separation, probably the way to do it is the way they did it in the Monteverdi. In 47 00:13:51,560 --> 00:13:55,480 other words, near and far from the mics rather than left. 48 00:13:55,500 --> 00:14:06,800 By the way, I want to get your opinion on something. I have an old LP of Gabrielli's 49 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:16,220 music, and in the liner notes, it says, 14. the three pieces on the second side are played by two separate choirs of brass instruments 50 00:14:16,220 --> 00:14:25,480 to create the desired three-dimensional echo effect. The groups making the recording were placed at opposite ends of the studio more than one time. They are now separated from 51 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:38,340 100 feet apart, with the conductor standing midway between them. This duplicated, in effect, the two music lofts on opposite sides of the nave in the Cathedral San Marco, where Gabrielli 52 00:14:38,340 --> 00:14:49,160 composed the pieces, and where they received their first performance. This novel recording technique makes it possible for the listener to imagine orally the authentic circumstances of 53 00:14:49,160 --> 00:15:01,460 antiphony. These canzonas are most valid when the music is heard coming from two different directions. Now, just a minute, am I missing something here? Or is it not true that on a 54 00:15:01,460 --> 00:15:12,880 mono recording, it won't make any difference if the groups are right next to each other or 100 feet apart, right? I mean, as long as the mic is equidistant from both groups, I don't see that 55 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:21,880 it's going to make any difference. But you know, I'm not a sound engineer or anything, I'm just a composer. Everybody knows that... Excuse me. 56 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:32,570 Hello? Yeah? Okay. Well, I suppose you're right, yeah. Since it takes the sound longer to travel 57 00:15:32,570 --> 00:15:45,370 the 100 feet between the two groups, the coordination might be affected. Although I must say, I should think it would be for the worse, you know, less coordinated. Okay, well, thanks for your input. Bye. 58 00:15:46,590 --> 00:15:50,370 I'm not sure you could really hear the difference between... Oh, man. 59 00:15:51,710 --> 00:16:03,430 Maybe I shouldn't have asked for it. Hello? How do you do? Okay. Okay, now, wait a minute. Back 60 00:16:03,430 --> 00:16:09,890 up there. Let me get this straight. If you've got a single ensemble with a microphone in front of 61 00:16:09,890 --> 00:16:17,670 it, yeah, the sound from the ensemble will shift very slightly counterclockwise because of the 62 00:16:17,670 --> 00:16:24,870 rotation of the earth. Yeah, well, in the northern hemisphere, yeah. But if you've got two ensembles, 63 00:16:24,890 --> 00:16:32,650 100 feet apart, okay, what you're saying is that you've now got two counterclockwise currents of 64 00:16:32,650 --> 00:16:39,690 sound going, and that creates a more complicated... What did you say your degree was in? Visual 65 00:16:39,690 --> 00:16:46,310 acoustics. That's what I thought you said. I've never heard of that. Well, it's a very interesting 66 00:16:46,310 --> 00:16:54,870 theory. Thank... Sure. Peter Schickely. Schickely. No, no, there's no middle name. 67 00:16:54,890 --> 00:17:02,910 There, the whole thing is my last name, Schickely. No, no relation to Robert E. Lee, at least as far as I know. 68 00:17:05,190 --> 00:17:10,550 Okay, you must have just tuned in. The name's Peter Schickely, the show's Schickely Mix, and it's from 69 00:17:10,550 --> 00:17:20,569 PRI, Public Radio International. No, no, I understand that. I can see that if one of the musical groups 70 00:17:20,569 --> 00:17:31,750 was 50 feet north of the equator, and the other group was 50 feet south of the equator, because of the earth's rotation, the sound from the ensemble will shift very slightly counterclockwise. So, if I had to make a notation, the Gabrielli would sound louder if heard from the west than from 71 00:17:31,750 --> 00:17:40,150 the east. But I really don't have time to pursue this, okay? So, bye. Take care. Yes. Well, opposition 72 00:17:40,150 --> 00:17:47,430 is true friendship. We're discussing antiphonal music, but we are no longer discussing the recording 73 00:17:47,430 --> 00:17:57,650 of antiphonal music. Now, not all antiphonal music is echo music, but here's an antiphonal piece that is based on the expectation that it's going to sound like an echo. So, I'm going to start with the 74 00:17:57,670 --> 00:18:04,430 antiphonal piece. It is assumed that the brasses in the balcony are going to echo what the woodwinds 75 00:18:04,430 --> 00:18:16,550 on the stage play. Now, sometimes when you get musicians spread very far apart, it's hard for them to keep together rhythmically because of the time it takes sound to travel. In this case, 76 00:18:16,550 --> 00:18:23,150 however, the problem is not one of acoustics. It's one of attitude, and I do mean attitude. 77 00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:44,500 The echo sonata for two unfriendly groups of instruments by PDQ Bach, played by six musicians 78 00:20:44,500 --> 00:20:54,560 who usually behave like the grown-ups they putatively are, or were when this recording was made. John Solom on flute, Leonard Arnott on piano, and John Solom on piano. The echo sonata for two 79 00:20:54,580 --> 00:21:07,060 of these groups is a complete rendition of the work from the Portrait of PDQ Bach album, 80 00:21:07,220 --> 00:21:19,040 not the abortive rendition, unfortunately preserved on report from Hoople, PDQ Bach on the air. I'll tell you a story about that piece. When I used to be touring with PDQ Bach, 81 00:21:19,260 --> 00:21:29,200 the echo sonata was on one of our touring programs. And, you know, humor, humor doesn't exist in a vacuum. It can be affected by what goes on in the world. 82 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:39,500 At the end of that piece, the way it's done in concert, it's set up so you're obviously expecting the brasses to play the last chord, but they don't. They won't. The woodwinds look 83 00:21:39,500 --> 00:21:50,240 up in the balcony, silence. They keep looking up. Finally, Bill Walters, if you've ever seen a PDQ Bach program, he was the assistant, the sort of stage manager, straight man. He would 84 00:21:50,240 --> 00:22:00,840 come out and look up in the balcony. He'd confer with me. Then, finally, would go off stage and come back with a toy gun, a toy rifle, actually pop rifle, you know, with a 85 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:12,600 cork in the end, and he would put it up to his shoulder and point it up at the group in the balcony, and then they would play the last chord. But you know, after the late 60s and early 70s, 86 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:24,920 after the assassination of Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy, and then the two attempts on the life of Gerald Ford, it just didn't seem so funny pointing a gun at somebody anymore to 87 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:36,400 get them to do something. So we changed it to where Bill would jump off the stage and start walking purposefully up the aisle, rolling up his sleeves, and then the brasses would play the last 88 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:48,960 chord. As I say, humor does not exist in a vacuum. I used to find a brassiere in the piano, too. Some women talked me out of that. Very big women. Anyway, let's get on to our second 89 00:22:48,960 --> 00:23:00,360 suite. As I said before, not all antiphonal music is echo music, as we are about to hear. In these pieces, the answering groups don't imitate the material of the statement groups. 90 00:23:00,860 --> 00:23:07,320 In fact, the whole statement-answer thing gives way, in the later pieces, to a feeling of general 91 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:18,940 irregular alternation, rather than the feeling of paired phrases you tend to get in echo music. Spatial separation isn't as important here. Instead, there's a very noticeable difference between the two. The first piece, which is the second suite, is a 92 00:23:18,940 --> 00:23:30,620 noticeable difference in the size of the two groups. A large group is contrasted with a very small group. Four people in the second and third pieces, only one in the first. So this is the 93 00:23:30,620 --> 00:23:37,020 David and Goliath antiphonal suite. It, too, has three movements. I'll be back in about nine and a half minutes. 94 00:25:38,500 --> 00:25:40,560 David and Goliath 95 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:44,160 Antiphonal movement David and Goliath Antiphonal movement 96 00:25:44,160 --> 00:26:10,240 David and Goliath 97 00:27:08,490 --> 00:27:11,070 Thank you. 98 00:28:08,110 --> 00:28:32,840 Thank you. 99 00:30:32,860 --> 00:30:50,840 Thank you. 100 00:32:55,900 --> 00:32:56,960 Thank you. 101 00:33:26,260 --> 00:33:26,620 Thank you. 102 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:56,880 Thank you. 103 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:26,880 Thank you. 104 00:34:57,170 --> 00:34:59,230 Thank you. 105 00:35:29,170 --> 00:35:31,070 Thank you. 106 00:35:59,170 --> 00:36:00,830 Thank you. 107 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,320 Thank you. 108 00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:03,680 Thank you. 109 00:37:32,780 --> 00:37:35,500 Thank you. 110 00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:04,640 Thank you. 111 00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:34,040 Thank you. 112 00:39:15,900 --> 00:39:17,020 God bless you. 113 00:40:37,820 --> 00:40:39,180 God bless you. 114 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,920 God bless you. 115 00:42:04,750 --> 00:42:06,630 God bless you. 116 00:43:32,060 --> 00:43:36,120 God bless you. 117 00:44:10,910 --> 00:44:15,300 God bless you. 118 00:44:58,730 --> 00:44:59,090 God bless you. 119 00:45:29,780 --> 00:45:30,660 God bless you. 120 00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:55,040 God bless you. 121 00:46:28,580 --> 00:46:30,260 God bless you. 122 00:48:05,980 --> 00:48:07,120 God bless you. 123 00:49:51,240 --> 00:49:53,020 God bless you. God bless you. God bless you. 124 00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:12,040 Rudder doing the second section from Bach's motet, Singet dem Herren. And that second section 125 00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:19,340 is that Lutheran chorale I mentioned. The choir too is singing, like as a father bendeth in pity 126 00:50:19,340 --> 00:50:27,040 or his infant race, so God the Lord befriendeth the meek and lowly heirs of grace. And in between 127 00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:33,100 the phrases that goes on, the choir sings, as I said, it's more like a prayer. Almighty God, 128 00:50:33,100 --> 00:50:42,100 preserve us still, teach us to heed thy sovereign will, in all we do direct us, etc. A very beautiful 129 00:50:42,100 --> 00:50:49,760 cantata and very beautifully sung. And then we had a group from Tuva, Voices from the Center of Asia, 130 00:50:49,900 --> 00:51:02,600 Smithsonian album. And this was an antiphonal song, sung obviously by a group of men and a group of women. I want to read the lyrics here because it's pretty far from my experience here. The men sing, 131 00:51:03,100 --> 00:51:10,640 Strength decides the fate of one-year-old and two-year-old foals. Thought decides the decorations 132 00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:18,600 on the bride's ribbons. And then the women respond, Whether or not the dawn comes, the cloudy morning 133 00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:26,980 stands. Whether to take me or not take me to wed, my friend can't make up his mind. The men sing, 134 00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:38,860 Strength decides the fate of one-year-old and two-year-old foals. Let intentions decide the fortunes on the bride's attire. And the women sing, Whether the sun rises or not, somewhere it is 135 00:51:38,860 --> 00:51:48,360 getting hot. Whether or not my friend appears, the bride price will be bid up, won't it? It's a 136 00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:55,140 different world, all right. And then finally, Jerry Mulligan quartet, playing Get Happy. That's Jerry 137 00:51:55,140 --> 00:52:02,100 Mulligan on baritone sax, Chet Baker on trumpet, Bob Whitlock on bass, and Chico Hamilton on drums. 138 00:52:03,100 --> 00:52:15,900 And that technique of switching every four bars in jazz is called trading fours. It almost always happens after the main solos are over and before you play the tune again for the last time. And 139 00:52:15,900 --> 00:52:28,760 okay, so I lied a little bit, folks, when I said that there was no simultaneous stuff going on here. Obviously, the drums play not only during the drum solo, but also the drums accompany the 140 00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:38,120 other people playing. But there's a big difference between the solo playing and the just keeping time. And even Jerry Mulligan sometimes plays some accompanimental stuff, but it's very much 141 00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:45,000 of an antiphonal thing. Trumpet, drums, buried drums, trumpet, drums, buried drums. And that's 142 00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:57,720 actually one of the longest examples of trading fours that I've heard. And I do believe we've got time for a tidbit here. I pointed out earlier that conversation is a form of antiphony. Well, 143 00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:10,320 today's tidbit time is a highly stylized conversation. Martin and John Raitt bickering in Annie Get Your Gun. Here's another example of opposites attracting. 144 00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:21,720 I met a dine in Napoli and didn't she look great. And so I brought her back to Blighty just to show 145 00:53:21,720 --> 00:53:33,420 me mates. And though we're married happily, I'll tell you furthermore, I haven't had a decent meal since 1944. Hit your men as Tony Joe. That's all you ever say. 146 00:53:34,100 --> 00:53:44,700 Hit your macaroni Joe. Every blink in time. No wonder you're so bony Joe and skinny as a rake. Well then give us a bash at the bangers and mash me mother used to make. 147 00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:52,320 Bangers and mash. Minestrone. Bangers and mash. Macaroni. Give us a bash at the bangers and mash me mother used to make. 148 00:53:56,620 --> 00:54:07,520 Hit your tagliatelle Joe. That's all I've heard for years. Hit your vermicelli Joe. It's coming out me ears. You've got to fill your belly Joe. Joe for heaven's sake. 149 00:54:07,700 --> 00:54:18,900 Well then give us a bash at the bangers and mash me mother used to make. Well alright. Bangers and mash. Tagliatelle. Bangers and mash. Vermicelli. Give us a bash at the bangers and mash me mother used to make. 150 00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:35,460 1943 Allied forces land in Italy. There's a smashing looking bird over there Bert. I think she's showing up there. Well why don't you chat her up then? Right. Buongiorno Signorino. Yeah. Here are you married? 151 00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:39,580 Broppa dead. There you are. Can't have a fair answer than that can you? 152 00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:47,020 I met him back in Italy. So dashing and good looking. 153 00:54:47,720 --> 00:54:54,240 He wined me and he dined me every night. 154 00:54:55,140 --> 00:55:02,200 He said I smiled so prettily and how he loved my cooking. 155 00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:03,860 But since... 156 00:55:04,100 --> 00:55:14,400 He's married me. It seems he's lost his appetite. Eat your tagliatelle so. That's all you ever say. Eat your vermicelli so. Every bloomin' day. 157 00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:26,600 You've got to fill your belly so. So for heaven's sake. Well then give us a bash at the bangers and mash me mother used to make. Bangers and mash. Minestrone. Bangers and mash. Macaroni. 158 00:55:26,620 --> 00:55:28,500 Give me a bash with the banger and the mash. 159 00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:34,600 Like the same one that your mother was... What are you laughing at now? No. Listen. Listen. Please. 160 00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:43,400 Joe? Yes? Why don't you belt up or I'll give you a punch up the throat. Now she's a tells me. Ha. Mama mia. 161 00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:56,220 Opposition is true friendship. Peter Sellers and Sophia Loren singing bangers and mash. Bangers are sausages by the way. And of course mash is an old TV program. 162 00:55:56,940 --> 00:56:07,840 Okay let's go out with a beautiful antiphonal surprise. Here's Paul Winter. Playing his soprano sax on a rainy night in a forest in Glacier National Park. 163 00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:11,720 Not knowing he would be answered by a chorus. 164 00:56:14,100 --> 00:57:00,500 And Paul Winter and a large pack of wolves bring sickly mix to an end this week. 165 00:57:00,580 --> 00:57:12,060 Our program is made possible with funds provided by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and by the National Endowment for the Arts. With additional support from the National Academy of Recording Arts and Music. 166 00:57:12,060 --> 00:57:20,160 And from this radio station and its members. Our program is distributed by PRI, Public Radio International. 167 00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:32,520 We'll tell you in a moment how you can get an official playlist of all the music on today's program with album numbers and everything. Just refer to the program number. This is program number 129. 168 00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:42,780 And this is Peter Sickley saying goodbye and reminding you that it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that certain je ne sais quoi. You're looking good. See you next week. 169 00:57:53,240 --> 00:58:05,340 If you'd like a copy of the playlist that Peter Sickley mentioned, send a stamped self-addressed envelope to Sickley Mix. That's S-C-H-I-C-K-E-L-E. Sickley Mix. 170 00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:15,220 Care of Public Radio International. 100 North 6th Street. Suite 900A. Minneapolis, Minnesota 55403. 171 00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:18,480 Again, this is program number 129.