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[Comments] (16) Sold Out: Michael Moore is coming to Utah. Sorry mom and Rachel, you can't come. It's sold out. But since I'll never see his movie (it's rated R) I do need to at least find out more about his views, I think.

Though I would most likely disagree with his political agenda, I am still thoroughly disgusted with the intolerance levels students display at his coming. Oh well, what can I expect from undergrads anyway?


Posted by rachel at Sat Sep 25 2004 23:01

You could read one of his books. There was a section on how to talk to your conservative brother in law :P

Silly, silly undergrads, right? :) SO glad I'm not one of those any more

Posted by John at Sun Sep 26 2004 14:24

Is that what you were trying to do on the Fourth of July? Cuz if so, you should let him know his method didn't work =).

Posted by Joe at Mon Sep 27 2004 20:40

Hey there, Break it up!!! ;)

You know, with this Sean Hannity and Michael Moore controversy, I am reminded that sometimes in this world we are forced to choose between two forks in the road to hell (not that either person necesarially is evil, but when the focus is off what really should be the solution to winning some debate it is not on the right road).

So, What will it be I ask you good Utah college students, Coriantumr or Shiz, Wine or Beer, Heroin or Ecstacy, Right wing or left wing?? The answer should be none of them. But its hard to live in the neighborhood and not participate in the neighborhood brawl without moving out-- an option that is unavailable at this time.

(although I think I personally would rather be around Sean Hannity than the other)

Posted by Susie at Tue Sep 28 2004 08:55

Good luck today, honey!

Posted by Sumana at Tue Sep 28 2004 11:13

"But since I'll never see his movie (it's rated R) I do need to at least find out more about his views, I think."

John: Michael Moore has a web site at where you can read a bunch of his essays, columns, etc.

So you never watch rated-R movies, or rarely do? It sounds like you reason, "the MPAA rating guidelines neatly fit my own personal beliefs and preferences and therefore I can use them to avoid objectionable material." Am I wrong?

This is one argument where I agree with the CAPAlert guy - the MPAA's changing standards on what's fit for different ratings don't jibe with my standards.

Roger Ebert has a bone or two to pick with the MPAA.

We trust the UL to check whether electrical appliances are dangerous, because they use objective and consistent standards. I can't say the same about the labeling standards of the MPAA. I'd be happy to blather on more if you like.

Posted by John at Tue Sep 28 2004 12:46

Well, the MPAA rating system is problematic, at best, because it relies on personal judgment and objectivity (much like ice skating and gymnastics meets) that can never be perfect because human reasoning is not perfect. But Susie and I have both decided that, regardless of the rating system, R-rated movies are simply not something we wish to entertain in our home. It does have religious ties, but is personal as well, as I proclaim myself against the idea of blind obedience to my church's policies and revelations.

Have I ever seen a Rated R movie? Yes, I've seen "Rainman" and "Schindler's List" and possibly one or two more. But it's a very rare case.

But even if Michael Moore's movie had some other rating, I still probably would not pay money to see it. Read his articles for free, on the other hand, is something I plan to do after my M&A and financial tests are over later this week.

In closing, sorry if I have offended anyone with my unique views on how the world should be run. I thought Michael Moore coming to Utah was a pretty interesting phenomenon, however.

Posted by John at Tue Sep 28 2004 12:49

I forgot to mention that Susie and I are also very picky about PG-13 movies as well. When you are on a buget like ours, the movie filtering level is set extremely high. And even then, it's often a debate about whether it's worth an immediate $8 or a distant $1 movie trip....

Posted by Susie at Tue Sep 28 2004 14:08

That's what I was going to say. Just because something isn't rated R doesn't mean it's worth watching either. It used to be a much better standard of what was good, clean, movie fun, but the standards are slipping.

Posted by Sumana at Tue Sep 28 2004 15:10

Sorry for the misunderstanding - I misunderstood you, John, when you mentioned why you wouldn't watch Fahrenheit 9/11 (I assume you mean that and not Bowling for Columbine). Most movies aren't worth my time or yours, and lots of today's movies are R-rated or are a very harsh PG-13 that I would rate an R if I were the MPAA. I think the MPAA is too restrictive in some areas and too lenient in others. But anyway --

When I am looking for movies to watch with my parents, who also prefer to watch movies without profanity or nudity, I use the CAPAlert ratings.

He has a chart that shows the number of incidences of each objectionable thing, and then he charts them, etc. Much more reliable than the MPAA's subjective letter ratings.

"It does have religious ties, but is personal as well, as I proclaim myself against the idea of blind obedience to my church's policies and revelations."

It certainly makes sense to avoid immoral behavior and to avoid watching violence and nudity on screen. Is that the general thrust of the Church's teachings on movies, or is there a specific "don't watch R-rated movies" rule? I wouldn't know, so I'm curious.

I'd love to hear more from you on how the world should be run!

Posted by Susie at Wed Sep 29 2004 07:26

There kinda is a "don't watch R-rated movies" rule, but it's becoming more of a "avoid trashy media" rule, including music, books, magazines, movies and TV shows. And on the internet.

Posted by Sumana at Wed Sep 29 2004 08:35

So who decrees what's trashy? Is it a 'follow your heart' thing? The Catholics had the Index of Prohibited Books and I assume LDS doesn't.

Posted by John at Wed Sep 29 2004 11:57

While it is true that there are some "self-proclaimed" members of the church who try and decided the literal interpretation of these things, its really about following "the Spirit."

Posted by Susie at Wed Sep 29 2004 12:17

If you're uncomfortable with it, don't watch (or read, or listen to) it, unless of course you probably should be uncomfortable with it and you're just extremely desensitized. That's what I say.

Posted by Kristen at Tue Oct 12 2004 17:27

Leaders of the Church have said:
H. Burke Peterson
"Again I say, leave it alone. Turn it off, walk away from it, burn it, erase it, destroy it. I know it is hard counsel we give when we say movies that are R-rated, and many with PG-13 ratings, are produced by satanic influences. Our standards should not be dictated by the rating system. I repeat, because of what they really represent, these types of movies, music, tapes, etc. serve the purposes of the author of all darkness."


Pres. Benson May 1986
"We counsel you, young men, not to pollute your minds with such degrading matter, for the mind through which this filth passes is never the same afterwards. Don’t see R-rated movies or vulgar videos or participate in any entertainment that is immoral, suggestive, or pornographic. Don’t listen to music that is degrading."


Elder Cree-L Kofford
"All too often, we get ourselves enmeshed in the process of trying to understand why God gave us a particular commandment. We want to rationalize. I don’t know where that is more evident than in watching movies. Young people know they should not watch R- or X-rated movies, and yet time after time I hear them say, “Well it’s only rated R because it’s violent.” What difference does it make why it is rated R? The fact is, a prophet of God has said not to go to R-rated movies (see, for example, Ezra Taft Benson, “To the ‘Youth of the Noble Birthright,’ ” Ensign, May 1986, 45). That ought to be good enough."

Posted by Kristen at Tue Oct 12 2004 17:29

John, I too was embarassed of the way students at UVSC acted when Michael Moore was booked to go to the campus. Even if I don't agree with much of what he stands for, First Amendment Rights come first.

Posted by John at Tue Oct 12 2004 19:57

I guess I find solace in the fact that Arizona University and Nevada Univversity are both having the some problems that UVSC faces (donors withdrawing, demonstrations, etc). It's not just the Mormons being stupidheads.

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