![[Comments]](/nb/assets/comments.png "7 comments")
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Tue Oct 16 2007 21:53 More Roguelike Notes:
- Identification is too hard. Well, there are lots of tricks
here, and it's not too hard if you know them. Basic price ID and the
wand trick will get you a long way. BUT, that's a feature of Nethack
and doesn't have to be a feature of any given Roguelike. *Angband and
Diablo have identify scrolls for sale in the town. But those games
also have very strict inventory limits, so you have to constantly
identify and ditch items. They also have a huge number of unique
artifacts, so there are many more things to identify than in Nethack.
I've found that identification is very difficult in ADOM, because the Nethack tricks don't work and identify scrolls are much rarer. Also you can't name classes of items.
If you want to make identification easier, you can add more tricks or add more sources of identification. You can balance this by adding more things that need to be identified. This ties in well with Zack's desire to see more equipment and more artifacts.
- It's easy to optimize your kit. *Angband negates this by 1)
having an enormous number of monster attacks that you need to defend
against, and 2) giving you lots of randomly generated equipment. If
you're lucky you can optimize your kit, but there is no immunity in
*Angband, so you still have to carry around resistance potions to deal
with the Older Than Dirt Red Wyrm who can breathe for 400 points of
fire damage every turn (this is one of the things I hate about
*Angband actually).
However you get rid of this problem, it's going to be by creating more aspects of equipment. Either there will be no way to get all these aspects at once, there will be so many ways to get partial coverage it will be difficult to figure out the best one, or some of the aspects will be negative (permacurses, vulnerabilties). It helps if you limit (ADOM) or remove (*Angband) permanent intrinsics. That way the player has to rely more on their equipment and less on something they ate.
- Artifacts are boring. They are, in fact. I think this is
another result of Nethack's flatness and written-in-C-ness. It's easy
to add another weapon to the artifact table but difficult to give it
custom behavior. And often the custom behavior doesn't make the
artifact better than a normal enchanted weapon. The vorpal sword is
kind of cool but it's not worth lugging around.
ADOM has more useful artifacts than Nethack, even though there's no custom behavior. *Angband has random artifacts that are cool, and Zangband(?) has a whole subgenre of usually-useless artifacts that can be triggered for some effect every N turns and have fun Knapsack Problem-esque names. Diablo II has super-cool customizable artifacts. I like Zack's idea of artifacts (or just random objects) gaining more power as you complete quests, but that's going to be a whole lot of side quests most of which won't be triggered in a given game. Sounds kind of MMORPGish.
Magicbane, Mjolnir, and Stormbringer are the only Nethack artifacts that feel like artifacts, like powerful magics barely under your control. That said, most roguelikes don't give artifacts any special behavior at all. You could go a long way just by programming that big table of artifact effects from the 1st edition AD&D DMG.
- Starting equipment quality has too much variance. True, but
if you're going to introduce variance into the game (important for
replayability at different challenge levels), the beginning is the
place to do it.
In this context Zack brings up the complaint, common to pseudo-RPG genres, that although saving the world is supposedly your job, nobody lifts a finger to help you. I actually wrote What Fools These Mortals to explain this, and the "Guide to the Mazes of Menace" tries to accomplish the same by downplaying the implications of the game intro dump.
In a game design context, this occurs in Nethack for two reasons. First, Nethack comes from Rogue, and in Rogue you are "some punk kid with no particular skills and no holy mission" -- a rogue, if you will. Second, if you started the game with good equipment, the first part of the game would be too easy. It'd have to be made harder. Then you'd be back where you started. Maybe kick in a couple food rations for classes that start with no food, but I think Nethack gives you a wide variety of challenges here and it's a reasonable design decision.